Episode 9: Remember the Refrain with Cece Jones-Davis
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Show Notes
Co-hosts
Jeff Chu
Find Jeff online: @byJeffChu on Instagram or @JeffChu on Twitter. You can also subscribe to Jeff’s newsletter, Notes of a Make-Believer Farmer on Substack.
Sarah Bessey
Find Sarah online: @SarahBessey on Instagram or @SarahBessey on Twitter. You can also subscribe to Sarah’s newsletter, Field Notes on Substack. Explore Sarah’s recent books on her website.
Featured guest
Cece Jones-Davis
Cece Jones-Davis, an ordained minister, artist, speaker, and advocate, has dedicated her life to pointing people to the ALL-powerful and the least-powerful. Working at the intersection of faith and justice, she is passionate about seeing God’s Kingdom come in the areas of racial healing, women and girls issues, and criminal justice reform.
Learn more about Cece on CeCeJonesDavis.com.
“If we’re going to continue to try to love our neighbors well, we will need a refrain. If we’re going to run this race with patience, we’re going to need a rhythm, because what the Lord requires also requires the Lord.”
Thanks to our producer, SueAnn Shiah, who also provided the music for this episode, you can listen to her album A Liturgy for the Perseverance of the Saints on Spotify, Apple Music, Youtube, or Bandcamp and find her at @sueannshiah on Instagram and @sueannshiah on Twitter.
Transcript
AD: If you’ve been listening to and loving this podcast, join us for Evolving Faith 2022, the live virtual conference, on October 14 and 15.
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CECE: “We need a chorus that reminds us of God’s grace and God’s power and God’s mercy and God’s love. We need a chorus that binds us together, that holds us accountable to who we say we are and what we say we believe. We need to remember a refrain that affirms our moral responsibilities to babies at the border, to vulnerable women and girls, to disenfranchised people groups. Remember a refrain that convicts us to act quickly, to not talk ourselves out of doing the right thing, to speak up whenever, wherever, and however the image of God is being dishonored. We need a refrain. We need to remember the refrain of what God requires: to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.”
JEFF: Hi friends. I'm Jeff Chu.
SARAH: And I'm Sarah Bessey. Welcome back to The Evolving Faith Podcast. Friends, we are so glad that you have decided to spend some of your time with us this week. If you're not already following us on social media, we would be so glad to welcome you to those spaces. We are on Facebook as Evolving Faith as well as on Twitter and Instagram as @EvolvFaith. I am so excited about today's episode because we are going to be hearing from our friend Cece Jones-Davis. Jeff, I am really excited to report to you that it is finally warming up here in Calgary because we are spending so much more time outside now.
JEFF: Sorry, it's July. I hope it's warming up. By warming up, do you mean it's just like above freezing?
SARAH: Hey, hey, hey, Michigan. But you're not wrong. You're not wrong. How is your garden coming along?
JEFF: I have a whole bunch of things that are not dead, so I am very excited about that. Real quick, though, a programing note for listeners. If you hear groans or sighs, Fozzie is in the recording studio today and that is him, not me or the Holy Spirit.
SARAH: Which is a likely story. And also yay! Yay for Team Not Dead, which is actually, now that I think about it, the deep Doctor Who joke for like, my fellow three fans, but yes, go—go Team Not Dead.
JEFF: I have never seen Doctor Who, not one single episode. You know that, right?
SARAH: I do. I do know that it is your one weakness.
JEFF: You know, that's a lie. You very much delight in pointing out my many weaknesses. But we don't have time on this little podcast to list them all. As far as the garden goes, I always say high hopes and low expectations. So I'm really thankful that I got to bring my mother some Chinese greens. The spinach and bok choy have been looking good. I am not keeping up very well with weeding, but one thing about that is that occasionally you find something that popped up where it wasn't supposed to, and it's a tiny reminder of grace. For instance, in my community garden plot, there's a potato plant that's growing where some black beans are, and I didn't plant it and some yarrow and snapdragons came back from last year as well. It is so humbling when you get these reminders of all that grows without your intervention and beyond your control.
SARAH: Man, you always find like the best metaphors in the dirt.
JEFF: It's basically three metaphors that I keep recycling, but don't tell anyone.
SARAH: Listen. I literally preach like one message and not too many people have figured that out yet, so I think that you're fine. Okay. Okay, well, let's get over to our lovely Cece for this episode. As I said, I am so excited for all of you to listen. And for those of you who maybe aren't as familiar with Cece and her work, she's a singer and a speaker, minister and an advocate. She works at the intersections of faith and social justice. She is a fierce anti-death penalty activist in Oklahoma, and she helped to secure clemency for Julius Jones last year. She's also passionate about menstrual equity and racial reconciliation. She has a beautiful voice, and she's always described music as being her first love. She's also ordained in the Disciples of Christ denomination and a graduate of Howard University, Yale Divinity School, and the Yale Institute for Sacred Music, Worship, and the Arts. And she's a proud member of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority. Jeff and I will be back at the end of her talk for a little chat. But for now, let's go ahead and listen to Cece in Denver, Colorado, in 2019.
CECE: So. Hey, everybody. So glad, so glad to be with you all. If you are the kind to have your Bible or want to look at your Bible, we're coming from Exodus 15:19–21, and here is what it says. It says,”Wwhen Pharaoh’s horses, chariots, and horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought the waters of the sea back over them. But the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground. Then Miriam the Prophet, Aaron’s sister, she took a timbrel in her hand and all the women followed her with timbrels and dancing. Miriam sang to them, “Sing to the Lord, for He is highly exalted. Both horse and rider he has hurled into the sea.” I would like to speak to us today for a few moments on the topic Remember the refrain. Remember the refrain.
Let's pray: Eternal and all-wise God you are from everlasting to everlasting. So, Lord, we make space further space, for your presence, for your word, for your understanding. And we ask that you would take this word as if it were fish and bread and break it into however many pieces of people there are here and feed us until we want no more. It's in the matchless name of Jesus that I pray. Amen.
African American people of Christian faith relate deeply to the Exodus story. This story has been a pillar of our faith, as we, just like the Israelites, have experienced the hardships of bondage and oppression in a strange land. It has been the God of the Exodus who we have put our trust in, a God who hears the cries of his people. A God who, through many dangers, toils, and snares, escorts his people out of Egypt through the wilderness and into the promised land. We worship the God of the Exodus. We sing about the God of the Exodus. This is the God who ultimately sent his son Jesus down 42 generations so that we could not only be free in our bodies but most importantly, free in our souls.
We sing. We sing songs about deliverance. We sing songs about salvation. Songs that have been passed down from generation to generation. Songs that remind us of God's faithfulness down through the years. Songs that help us to remember how good God is, what God has done, and how much God has brought us through. In Exodus 15, we find the Israelites running from Pharaoh after 430 years of slavery. His army is behind them and the Red Sea is in front of them. It seems that they will die if they move forward and they will die if they turn around.
But the God of the Bible comes right in the nick of time and parts the Red Sea and the Israelites cross over on dry ground. Pharaoh's army, however, are not so fortunate. And the horses and the chariots and the horsemen went into the sea, and the Lord brought the waters of the sea back over them. Not one of them survived but God's people. God's people have made it over. God's people are safe and they are dry. God's people are relieved and they are thankful. And right now on the other side of the bad situation, right now on the other side of the drama, right now on the other side of that Red Sea, it feels like it's time for a song.
And so with exuberant detail, Moses leads the Israelites into a musical medley of God's miraculous deeds, line by line, which is recorded in Exodus 15:1–18. They sing about all of the particulars, how God brought them out, what they saw God do, how they saw their enemies swept away by the Red Sea. Moses' song is a beautiful song, but it is a long song. Moses' song is a powerful song, but it is a long song, and long songs with too many verses and too many words don't pass down well to a people who are on the move. And nobody loves a good hymn more than me, but even I know that if you have too many verses and you have too many words, it gets lost in transport and lost in translation. The Israelites, they needed something else. So in verses 19–21, there's a woman named Miriam who steps forward to help God's people learn a refrain.
A refrain is the chorus of a song. It is short and simple and to the point. The refrain is the part of a song that we can all remember. It is the part of the song where we don't need the screen. We don't need the hymn book in front of us, because the refrain is etched in our memories and etched in our hearts. And the purpose of a refrain is to repeat over and over and over again to ourselves and to each other. The message, the theme, the point. Miriam turns to the crowd and leads them in a chorus, and she says, “Sing to the Lord. For he is highly exalted. Both horse and rider he has hurled into the sea.” Two lines, that's all the refrain was.
Miriam's lyrics are not fancy, but they are forceful. Miriam's lyrics are not many, but they are mighty. Miriam gives the people of God a refrain, a chorus, just a few lines that can be etched in their memories and etched in their hearts. A refrain about God's power, a refrain about God's protection, a refrain about God's mercy and his grace, and a refrain about God's interactions in the human story.
Here at Evolving Faith, we are a people on the move. And while there are so many verses that get lost in translation and lost in transport, we still need a chorus. We need to remember the refrain of our faith, the theme, the message, the point. We need a chorus that reminds us of God's grace and God's power and God's mercy and God's love. We need a chorus that binds us together, that holds us accountable to who we say we are and what we say we believe. We need to remember a refrain that affirms our moral responsibilities to the babies at the border, to vulnerable women and girls, to disenfranchised people groups. Remember a refrain that convicts us to act quickly, to not talk ourselves out of doing the right thing, to speak up whenever, wherever, and however the image of God is being dishonored.
We need a refrain. We need to remember the refrain of what God requires: to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. Miriam doesn't just teach us a refrain. Miriam also teaches us about reclaiming things. Miriam teaches us that when we leave a place, there are some things worth taking with you. It is peculiar to me that in the midst of a crisis situation, Miriam brings a timbrel. A timbrel is a small tambourine. It keeps a rhythm. A timbrel makes a joyful noise. And it is odd to me that Miriam has a timbrel because when the Israelites leave Egypt, they have to leave Egypt in a hurry.
There was no time for anything that wasn't essential. There was only space to pack what was important. So why, church? Why does Miriam have a timbrel? Why would she pack something so small? Something that seems so insignificant? Something that would seem to be so unimportant? I believe that Miriam packs her timbrel because Miriam always has a timbrel. Miriam had her timbrel in bondage, and now Miriam has her timbrel on the other side of the Red Sea. Miriam has developed a rhythm, and she has decided that no matter where she would find herself, no matter where she would go in her life, that she would bless the Lord at all times and that his praises would continually be in her mouth. I believe that Miriam decided that the rhythm of her life would not be based upon her geography, that the rhythm of her life would not be based upon her circumstances.
And that makes me wonder today here at Evolving Faith if we've got a timbrel, if we've got a rhythm, if we have brought anything with us—anything small, anything old, anything that would seem to be unimportant—that will keep us steady as we go from place to place on this Christian journey. We are a people on the move, and we have to decide what is still useful, what is still meaningful, what is still holy. And I'm so grateful that I come from a people who have taught me not to throw everything away. A people who have always had to learn how to repurpose the scraps. A people who have had to have a holy imagination about what is possible with what is broken.
I'm grateful to come from a people who did not throw the Bible away, even when it was used to keep us in bondage for 246 years. A people who did not throw Jesus away, even while crosses burned rampant in our yards. This is a people with a holy imagination. This is a people with a holy defiance and a people who worship the God of the Exodus and find their refrain in the liberating power of Jesus Christ.
Church, I want you to know today that to evolve does not mean that you have to throw everything away. And to evolve does not always require an exodus. Sometimes evolving requires an exfoliation, a sloghing away of the old to make room for the new, a peeling away of the surface to find the glory which is within. It is the refrain of this faith, a faith about Jesus, about God's love and mercy, compassion and power. It is the timbrels that I have brought with me, which have been the Word of God and prayer, that help me on a daily basis to confront the troubles of this dark world.
I do advocacy work in the areas of menstruation, the death penalty, and race, and all of them are bloody issues. And they have humbled me, and they have reminded me that what the Lord requires also requires the Lord. What the Lord requires in this day-to-day work of being a Christian, this day-to-day work of loving our neighbor, also requires the Lord. And if we, if you and I, are going to continue to push humanity forward, we're going to still need a reason why. If we're going to continue to try to love our neighbors well, we will need a refrain. If we're going to run this race with patience, we're going to need a rhythm, because what the Lord requires also requires the Lord. Remember the refrain, because it is a long road that we have ahead. Thank you.
JEFF: The musicality and the lyricism of Cece's preaching is just stunning to me and the virtuosity with which she takes things that many of us know from Sunday school and puts an entirely new framing on them. Words and phrases. I am officially retiring from preaching now.
SARAH: Right? I made so much noise during that message in Denver. It was just, it was such a good word. It was a timely word and a necessary one, but also just, good, good, good, good.
JEFF: I'm curious, since Cece talks so much about music, what, if any, music have you brought with you as your faith has shifted? Are there songs that you still hold on to and that have traveled with you?
SARAH: Yeah. That's an interesting question. I don't know, now that I'm thinking about it. I don't think that we've ever talked about music here on the podcast, which is kind of funny because it is or was maybe a big part of how so many of us expressed or experience faith, community, worship even. So I'm not, I'm not a musician or a performer by any stretch of the imagination. But I really loved and I still really love singing together with people. I remember hearing once that church is one of the last places where most of us will experience communal singing instead of just like a concert. And of course, I mean, granted, there are definitely some church worship services that feel a little bit more like a concert, but that's not my point. Either way, I do love to sing with people. I love a lot of songs that are loved ones. Sometimes I think they will be what is staying with me long after I've forgotten pretty much everything else. I didn't learn a lot of hymns as a kid or as a teenager. That just wasn't my, you know, religious background. But I do think a lot about those, like, charismatic, happy-clappy choruses that were big in like the ’80s and ’90s, probably with like a very similar fondness, I imagine. So I remember even rocking like our babies in the middle of the night, and those would be the choruses and the songs that would just kind of rise up, you know, in my mind or in my heart without even really thinking about it. They were a lot like what I think what Cece was saying here about refrains, right? They were meant to be remembered without words or books. And it turned out that when I was really, really sleep deprived, that was what was still in there.
JEFF: My grandparents brought their hymnals with them when they left Hong Kong for the U.S. so I grew up on a lot of those Baptists songs like “Trust and Obey,” which feels a little authoritarian now because it goes “Trust and obey for there's no other way." “In the Garden,” which feels a little "Jesus is my boyfriend" to me because it goes "and he walks with me and he talks with me and he tells me I am his own," which is fine, yes, but also can be maybe misconstrued.
SARAH: I am still here for all those “Jesus is my boyfriend” songs.
JEFF: I am not really looking for that kind of salvation.
SARAH: But what if, what if we dim the lights?
JEFF: Then I feel like I'm being called out upon the waters. The great unknown where feet may fail.
SARAH: Oh! Don't be mean. I still love that song.
JEFF: It is such bad theology. But yeah, it's pretty catchy.
SARAH: Which could probably be the tagline for this podcast.
JEFF: Ouch! Also not wrong. Anyway, let us not get too distracted from the beauty of Cece Jones-Davis's sermon. I feel like I need to point out that Cece has clearly carried songs of scripture with her because she just weaves and references with such ease. For instance, I love how she she quoted Psalm 34, which is one of my favorites, “No matter where Miriam would go in her life, that she would bless the Lord at all times and that his praises would be continually in her mouth.” Like that's from Psalm 34. And if you stop and think about it, what a striking image. A woman who lives so much of her life in bondage blessing the Lord at all times. A woman who endures the hardship of the refugee road blessing the Lord at all times. It gives me goosebumps, and it is not an easy thing to do when you stop and think about the actual implications.
SARAH: Right. And I mean, Cece also mentioned that we are people on the move and that we need a chorus to remind us of God's love and grace and power to bind us. And I think that feels a bit like trying to put kittens in a box if we're trying to get a lot of us to agree on what that chorus would be. But I do know that there are many of us out here who do find choruses or refrains that help us remember who we are and who God is and what we are required to do even, as she said. And so if we were looking for a refrain or a chorus for that, what actually comes to mind for you?
JEFF: Obviously, that's a tough question. And I don't mean this as a cop-out. But given the state of the world at the moment, I wonder if one form of refrain is just a chorus of groaning, which honestly is less bleak than it sounds. Because I think that holy groaning is really about admitting that we need help and it allows for diversity, and it acknowledges that so much is beyond us and also expresses such hope and trust in God. But speaking of music, I think people need to know this. Despite your insistence that you're not a musician, everyone should know this is not entirely true and we are truth-tellers on this podcast, or at least one of us is. A lot of people know. Oh, a lot of people don't know. A lot of people do not know that Sarah Bessey played the organ when she was growing up. Sarah, I just feel the spirit moving for you to use that instrument to bless the Lord and us at all times. I would not be so bold as to say this is a word from the Lord, but maybe I'm sensing a gentle whisper.
SARAH: And here I thought we were friends. So listen, I will only play the organ if we get to duet with my organ with your... What was it again? The violin, the viola, and the piano that you happen to have at your repertoire?
JEFF: Look, I was a very obedient Chinese kid. So I want to turn to another thing that Cece just tucks into her sermon that I think is worth lifting up, especially among so many folks who have been wounded by the church and are angry at the church. To evolve, she says, does not mean that you have to throw everything away. I've been thinking about that line because at times I see folks who have been hurt by the church and they've evolved and they really want to burn it all down, which I both get and, candidly, I struggle with that.
SARAH: Well, maybe that's a message for a particular part of the journey, that there is a time when hearing words like that maybe could be hurtful, but then there are times when they could be healing and even being given just the permission to hold on to things. After what most of us experience as a very necessary season of throwing things out or burning things down, I think that's important.
JEFF: Yeah. I think it's important to name that, particularly for some vulnerable and marginalized folks. The permission to hold on to something can be crucial. It can really reflect a state of privilege to be able to just get rid of everything, though.
SARAH: Yeah, it's really true. I mean. I remember hearing Phyllis Tickle use that metaphor of the rummage sale. When it comes to that shifting or what I would call like an apocalypse that we're kind of undergoing in the church right now. But she was quoting an Anglican bishop named Mark Dyer, who once kind of quipped that about every 500 years or so, the church feels compelled to hold like a giant rummage sale. And she would talk about how these empowered structures of institutional Christianity would become, in her words, an intolerable carapace which has to be shattered in order that renewal and new growth can occur. So I do, as anyone who's read my book Out of Sorts knows, I do love Phyllis Tickle. But the larger story, of course, is that when you get ready for this rummage sale or garage sale, you do sort through your things. And Cece mentioned that Miriam brought her timbrel or her drum because that was important and it was valuable to her. And I think in many ways, we do tend to think of that sorting out that happens of our faith as kind of a, I don't know, like a, an organization show like, you know, is it a keep or a toss, you know, kind of discussion when sometimes it's really not that simple. And sometimes the thing that everyone else around you is saying “Yeah, you need to toss that” is actually really precious to you and you want to hold on to that. And there are a lot of reasons for that. And I know that you and I have found something still incredibly compelling about the Jesus story, in particular in the gospel and in scriptures, even in language or music or whatever it is that, yes, we understand differently perhaps, or we have questions or we've changed or evolved, and yet we've held on to something that remains very precious. And I think that the two options for our faith aren't keep or toss, right? That there is something to reclaiming or maybe reimagining too.
JEFF: I think I want to add one more thing. Miriam wasn't keeping her timbrel because it was just an object dear to her heart, a souvenir of her past life that still sparked joy. It represented her calling and her relationship not just with God but also with her people. Sometimes in the process of the evolution of our faith, I worry that we think of it as my faith, that we forget about that crucial relational aspect, that it's never just about us. And I know I've banged on about this before, but when you look at Cece's work and how she has poured herself into justice work around women's equity and against the death penalty, you can see how the song that she's singing is good news for so many others. Good news that is not selfish or self-absorbed. And I think that's the spirit of Miriam.
SARAH: Exactly. Absolutely. It's not, it doesn't begin or end with us, right. There's that line that extends back and forwards and around us that, it is communal, which I think goes back to the song or the refrain and the importance of the communal song. That's not just a matter of holding on to something because it means something to me personally, although it may, but it's meant something to a community or ancestors or the larger story that we are a part of too, which I think is what brings us right to pretty much where Cece brought us in that sermon, which the refrain of how we care is of how we carry on with our work. Because, as she said, the road is long and it's important to know why we do what we do, even, maybe even especially, in the wilderness. And so for me, I mean, I don't know, like I have, I joke that I have like one sermon earlier, but like I do have a couple of refrains that I keep really close to my heart that are part of that origin story on the before faith shift and evolution and after in a new and different way. I'm thinking of ones like, I don't know, like John 10:10 that “I came that they might have life and life more abundant from Jesus" or even something as simple and revolutionary as "For God so loved the world" and I could keep going. And these are refrains that have connected me to my past and yet compel me towards community now. And I think they are shaping how I'm moving forward. I remember in John 15, which is probably the passage I preach off of the most, "As God has loved me so I have loved you. Now remain in my love."
JEFF: So if you're asking me to pick something from Scripture as a refrain, I first want to offer a caveat, because that's what I do. Sometimes people nitpicked these kinds of things, whether it's something from Scripture or one of the ancient creeds, because they say, “Well, what about X, Y, and Z issue?” To which I'd say, this isn't meant to be comprehensive. It's like a signpost. So mine would probably be the last part of Romans 8, where Paul reminds us that nothing, absolutely nothing, can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. A lot of days, I struggle to believe that, but I have to keep trying. To me, that love is our heartbeat. And that love is our hope.
JEFF: You can find all of the links mentioned on today’s show as well as info about the marvelous Cece Jones-Davis and her work in the world and a full transcript of this episode in our show notes at evolvingfaith.com/podcast. Make sure you’re following Evolving Faith on social media. As Sarah said earlier, you can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Sign up for my newsletter at jeffchu.substack.com and find photos of my occasionally failed attempts at growing things on Instagram at @byjeffchu.
SARAH: All right friends, you can also find me, Sarah Bessey, over at sarahbessey.com for all my social media links, sign up for my newsletter, and my books. The Evolving Faith Podcast is produced by us, Sarah Bessey and Jeff Chu, along with the wondrously talented SueAnn Shiah, who also wrote and recorded our music.
Thank you so much again for listening to this episode of The Evolving Faith Podcast. And until next time, remember that you are loved.
[ Instrumental Music: It Is Well With My Soul by SueAnn Shiah ]
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